Thanks for sharing this. As I’m trying to wrap my head around this I’m curious about a couple of things.
Within that 4min time frame are you limiting rest to a certain amount between sets, to keep HR and CNS stimulation high, for a cumulative affect? Or, do you have a set time, 30-60secs that you stick to as another measure of progress?
If I’m trying to teach the CNS how to compress these efforts, and I’m using HR as a metric for CNS stimulation, am I most interested in that final set?
Good question - I am trying to make the cumulative effect of all the volume more stimulating for my cardiovascular system. Thus, rest intervals are not done via time, but off of my heart rate. I will pay more attention to the total volume next time, but there was a total of nine or ten sets that I did.
As you know, the cardiovascular system is going to "lag" in comparison to the nervous system. Meaning: when you push the CNS, the cardiovascular system will be playing catch up. So what I do is, once I am done with the set and the cardiovascular system ramps up I watch my HR monitor until it peaks and then stabilizes, then I do another set.
Think about climbing a mountain. You do one set and after you stop the HR keeps running - let it run and once it stabilizes do another set to take it higher and climb into the heart rate zone that you want.
Yes, this totally makes sense and utilizing HR as a metric for a lot of things is something that I'm really interested in.
I would assume that, as the sets go on, you are taking a bit more time between sets before you see that drop in HR before you go again. For instance, if it takes 10secs between the first and second set, it might be 20secs between the fifth and sixth? Do you see value in tracking that metric as training progresses or are you only interested in it as it pertains to executing the next set?
When you said you were disappointed about not hitting Z5 and you stopped the training. I'm curious, is the desired effect of DE not met when the HR doesn't hit higher intensities or is it just to a less significant outcome?
I am doing a bad job of articulating what I am doing - I apologize.
My intent is to hit the velocity and volume of work in compressed manner that gets my heart rate into HR zone 5 in the process. When I do ME or repeated efforts to failure I will get into zone 5 but my DE work will not get me into the same zone - so in an attempt to get into zone 5 with DE work, once I get done with a set and the HR spike up, I let it keep going until that stabilizes at a new high point. At that point in time, I then do another DE set and that spikes my HR up again. I do this over and over until the volume is acquired. My intent was to get into zone 5 but you can see what I am talking about, my nervous system stagnated and didn't respond in a stimulating manner.
So I am not using time as metric for my rest intervals but my HR. Get done with a set, HR spikes up, as soon as it stabilizes at new high I do another set. I repeated this process with the intent of no drop off in velocity until volume and I hope that it takes my HR into zone 5 like on a ME or repeated efforts to failure set.
I have to do this because if I do rest intervals then my heart rate would not elevate as my nervous system is so used to this training. I hope this clarifies what my intent but if not please let me know!
No apologies necessary! I hope I'm not asking too many questions. I am sincerely interested in getting the maximum benefit and your detailed example has been extremely helpful.
I actually tried this today and it was a game changer for me in how I have been performing my DE. I also understand what you were talking about with not hitting the highest HR zone much more. I was just shy of Z5 when my velocity started dropping off and I believe I can manipulate the variables to figure out how to get a much better training stimulus.
It felt much closer to what I feel like when I'm performing a fast acceleration on the bike heading into a sprint and I'm excited to see how this might help me perform better there. Instead of just "moving faster" under load, like I have been during DE, I have a greater understanding of how to attain that CNS compression you were talking about.
It'd be great to hear your insights once you get back to it and adjust your accommodating resistance.
I’ve been playing around with this and really enjoy the pace. I’ve been able to create the intervals based off heart rate, with the intensity increasing across the sets. Do I understand correctly that the is to get as close to max heart rate as possible, then shut it down, regardless of volume, because the stimulus has been reached? As an example, in my most recent speed lower day, I shut it down when my heart rate plateaued for 2 consecutive sets. But I didn’t reach zone 5. Similar to John’s example, it took about 4 minutes and change, I was using accommodating resistance. I have a lot of trouble getting up there (even on a bike) before the legs go. My subjective evaluation is that my tissue is the limiting factor. What variable can be manipulated to push the heart rate? I have some wiggle room on the load, but need to preserve bar speed. Just try harder?
Thanks for sharing this. As I’m trying to wrap my head around this I’m curious about a couple of things.
Within that 4min time frame are you limiting rest to a certain amount between sets, to keep HR and CNS stimulation high, for a cumulative affect? Or, do you have a set time, 30-60secs that you stick to as another measure of progress?
If I’m trying to teach the CNS how to compress these efforts, and I’m using HR as a metric for CNS stimulation, am I most interested in that final set?
Hopefully this makes sense.
Good question - I am trying to make the cumulative effect of all the volume more stimulating for my cardiovascular system. Thus, rest intervals are not done via time, but off of my heart rate. I will pay more attention to the total volume next time, but there was a total of nine or ten sets that I did.
As you know, the cardiovascular system is going to "lag" in comparison to the nervous system. Meaning: when you push the CNS, the cardiovascular system will be playing catch up. So what I do is, once I am done with the set and the cardiovascular system ramps up I watch my HR monitor until it peaks and then stabilizes, then I do another set.
Think about climbing a mountain. You do one set and after you stop the HR keeps running - let it run and once it stabilizes do another set to take it higher and climb into the heart rate zone that you want.
Hopefully this makes sense.
Yes, this totally makes sense and utilizing HR as a metric for a lot of things is something that I'm really interested in.
I would assume that, as the sets go on, you are taking a bit more time between sets before you see that drop in HR before you go again. For instance, if it takes 10secs between the first and second set, it might be 20secs between the fifth and sixth? Do you see value in tracking that metric as training progresses or are you only interested in it as it pertains to executing the next set?
When you said you were disappointed about not hitting Z5 and you stopped the training. I'm curious, is the desired effect of DE not met when the HR doesn't hit higher intensities or is it just to a less significant outcome?
I am doing a bad job of articulating what I am doing - I apologize.
My intent is to hit the velocity and volume of work in compressed manner that gets my heart rate into HR zone 5 in the process. When I do ME or repeated efforts to failure I will get into zone 5 but my DE work will not get me into the same zone - so in an attempt to get into zone 5 with DE work, once I get done with a set and the HR spike up, I let it keep going until that stabilizes at a new high point. At that point in time, I then do another DE set and that spikes my HR up again. I do this over and over until the volume is acquired. My intent was to get into zone 5 but you can see what I am talking about, my nervous system stagnated and didn't respond in a stimulating manner.
So I am not using time as metric for my rest intervals but my HR. Get done with a set, HR spikes up, as soon as it stabilizes at new high I do another set. I repeated this process with the intent of no drop off in velocity until volume and I hope that it takes my HR into zone 5 like on a ME or repeated efforts to failure set.
I have to do this because if I do rest intervals then my heart rate would not elevate as my nervous system is so used to this training. I hope this clarifies what my intent but if not please let me know!
No apologies necessary! I hope I'm not asking too many questions. I am sincerely interested in getting the maximum benefit and your detailed example has been extremely helpful.
I actually tried this today and it was a game changer for me in how I have been performing my DE. I also understand what you were talking about with not hitting the highest HR zone much more. I was just shy of Z5 when my velocity started dropping off and I believe I can manipulate the variables to figure out how to get a much better training stimulus.
It felt much closer to what I feel like when I'm performing a fast acceleration on the bike heading into a sprint and I'm excited to see how this might help me perform better there. Instead of just "moving faster" under load, like I have been during DE, I have a greater understanding of how to attain that CNS compression you were talking about.
It'd be great to hear your insights once you get back to it and adjust your accommodating resistance.
Thanks again!
I’ve been playing around with this and really enjoy the pace. I’ve been able to create the intervals based off heart rate, with the intensity increasing across the sets. Do I understand correctly that the is to get as close to max heart rate as possible, then shut it down, regardless of volume, because the stimulus has been reached? As an example, in my most recent speed lower day, I shut it down when my heart rate plateaued for 2 consecutive sets. But I didn’t reach zone 5. Similar to John’s example, it took about 4 minutes and change, I was using accommodating resistance. I have a lot of trouble getting up there (even on a bike) before the legs go. My subjective evaluation is that my tissue is the limiting factor. What variable can be manipulated to push the heart rate? I have some wiggle room on the load, but need to preserve bar speed. Just try harder?